Lessons in Licensure: Dr. TwoSisters on Psychology, Regulation, and Professional Protection

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

This podcast is for educational purposes only, does not constitute legal advice and does not create an attorney-client relationship. If you need legal assistance about a legal problem, contact an attorney. Welcome to Know your Regulator. The podcast that inspires you to engage. I am Simone Murphy, your host and co-hosting with me today is the lovely MJ Hooper. Hey MJ, hey MJ.

Speaker 2: 0:26

Hey Simone, thanks for having me on today. We have an awesome episode lined up for our viewers. Today we have a very special guest who is a licensed psychologist, dr Two Sisters. She’s here to share her experience working with BHEC.

Speaker 1: 0:44

Yes, and that is also sometimes referred to as the Texas Behavioral Health Executive Council. We just refer to it as BHEC. Sometimes that’s a long agency name to say. But before we dive in, I do want to remind our listeners that this conversation is just for general informational and educational purposes. We’re going to focus on the broader insights rather than case-specific details. So, with that being said, let’s get started. Dr Two Sisters, thank you for being here with us. To start, could you tell our listeners a little bit about your background and what led you into the field of psychology?

Speaker 3: 1:26

That is a big question. Well, I wanted to be an artist and I was in I guess it was undergrad, and I was in a silkscreen class and I heard someone talking about my art therapist said and it was like a record scratched. I was like what did you just say? Ran over there, didn’t ever talk to this kid who’s using her silkscreen, and I was like tell me more about that.

Speaker 3: 1:53

I had been in therapy since I was 18 years old and I guess at that point it took me 10 years to get my undergrad. So it was pretty close to, you know, eight years in and I just was like, okay. So then I called some art therapists and they said do not get a master’s, go all the way, get your doctorate. Because they felt like they were glorified social workers. Not that social worker is bad, but you know, 20 years ago it’s not what I think that they had signed up for as an art therapist. So then here I end up being a clinical psychologist, mostly working with people who are reproducing or menopausal. So then here I end up being a clinical psychologist, mostly working with people who are reproducing or menopausal, so didn’t even hit the art therapy world, but I’m still an artist. I still identify as an artist and a fully licensed clinical psychologist.

Speaker 2: 2:36

Well, it’s definitely clear that you’re passionate about making a difference in the lives of others, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 2:43

Well, let’s talk about your first experience with BHEC. Aside from receiving your license, which I’m sure is everyone’s first interaction with them, can you share what you know subsequent interaction with your agency was like, and how did they contact you?

Speaker 3: 3:00

Yeah, I hadn’t really done much with them except for my licensure, and would go to their meetings. You know they have these monthly and quarterly meetings because I was trying to, you know, stay on top of things and I got a huge packet in the mail and I was like this is not normal. Usually it’s an envelope saying you know, we’re auditing your CEUs, because that happens all the time, because my last name is Two Sisters. But it was a huge, fat envelope and my heart just it just dropped. I was like, oh my God, what is this?

Speaker 2: 3:33

Well, I’m glad you brought that up, dr Two Sisters, because we always like to remind our listeners and our viewers that it’s imperative to pay attention to your mail, make sure your agency has the correct mailing address on file, because this is how most of the agencies will reach out to their license holders. So I appreciate you sharing that.

Speaker 3: 3:56

Yeah, I got nothing except for this giant thing in the mail. So had I not had my accurate address, I would have you know I don’t know what they would have done. I guess they would have been knocking. I would have you know. I don’t know what they would have done. I guess they would have been knocking on the door saying hello. But I never communicated with them outside of that giant envelope.

Speaker 1: 4:13

Interesting. Do you recall any resources or any guidance that effectively helped you navigate?

Speaker 3: 4:22

My liability insurance. The best tip that I was ever given was with my partner in crime during our internship. We had just graduated. So I’m looking at liability plans and I’d always had my own in grad school because I didn’t trust my grad school valid. And she was just like, make sure you get the representation part of your liability plan. And I was like what? And she goes, yeah, they’ll do board defense or any time that you know. If you’re sued, they’ll help pay for the lawyer. And I was like, yeah, I don’t know how much that is. That can’t be, and it’s not that much. And so that was the best advice I ever had. And then so I contacted the liability insurance probably told them too much in hindsight, because this is the first time I’ve ever had this happen and they’re like, oh, here’s a couple attorneys you know you should seek them out or whatever. And the list that they gave me was you guys weren’t on it and clearly I ended up with you guys, so there’s’s a reason for that.

Speaker 1: 5:18

It is a really big. Our last podcast episode was actually geared towards professional liability insurance and it is so important for license holders to just know that that’s an option, because obviously no one foresees themselves, you know, kind of getting into a regulatory complaint or regulatory investigation process. But it can be so that help can be so impactful throughout the process that I’m glad that you know you were aware of it and can share that knowledge with other license holders too.

Speaker 3: 5:53

Yeah, this was expensive, right, Like you have to find money for an attorney. Whether it’s a valid complaint or invalid, it doesn’t matter, we have to respond. And knowing that the liability insurance would help offset some of the fees was just a great, you know comfort, because this whole thing was terrible, right. So having that, knowing that I’m not going to have to go out here and get a loan or you know, it was just really comforting to know that I had financial support and representation support.

Speaker 1: 6:23

Well, it sounds like there were some really valuable lessons that were learned along the way. In reflecting on your experience, Dr Two Sisters, what advice would you have for other professionals in your industry who need to interact with BHEC?

Speaker 3: 6:38

I mean don’t fart around.

Speaker 1: 6:40

Get on it right away obviously.

Speaker 3: 6:42

That’s something my mom would say, right, like, respond immediately. It is our responsibility, when we have a license, to respond to the agency that is issuing the license, and it’s very clear to me that they are there for the public. They are not there for us. And so find someone who is there for you, which was y’all, and to just kind of provide some comfort and so like, don’t mess around, respond immediately, have your address up to date, obviously, and then breathe, right, so even if it’s a valid complaint or unvalid whatever, take a moment and breathe.

Speaker 3: 7:23

Because I just remember, like everything left my body seeing that and opening it up, and I was like, right, and so just take a moment and breathe and then find someone that matches what you believe. Right, so, like when you’re, when I’m talking to MJ, I know that MJ has my back and so like you need to feel that with your attorney because you need someone to help interface between you and the agency. So I never had to talk to the agency people. I didn’t talk to their attorneys, they talked to my attorney, which is great, because I didn’t want to get on there, cause I can talk a lot, I’m a therapist and I can say some crazy stuff, and I’m a punk rock therapist, right. So it’s like I don’t need to be talking to them. I just need to send them my paperwork and be on my job, do my CEUs and be honest, but I don’t need to talk to them.

Speaker 2: 8:14

Well, thank you for that and I love that. I think that’s awesome advice, dr Two Sisters. Well, thank you for that and I love that. I think that’s awesome advice, dr Two Sisters. So, with this experience, how would you say it’s changed your perspective on your profession and or your responsibility as a license holder?

Speaker 3: 8:29

I mean, it’s real clear how caged psychologists are. I don’t know about LPCs and LCSWs because that’s not my role, that’s not my license, but when I go to the medical doctor, I’m walking out and I see this little sign saying give us a Google review. We’re not allowed to do that. So if you look up anything about us, we’re not able to ask people to give us testimonials, anything about us. We’re not able to ask people to give us testimonials. You know, tell how great of a job that you’ve, you know, done working with us. We’re not allowed to do that.

Speaker 3: 9:01

So what’s out there is very I don’t know, it’s one-sided or it’s just really difficult to kind of live in a cage and know that.

Speaker 3: 9:10

When I was in grad school they talked a little bit about, you know, professionalism and there are some rules and regulations.

Speaker 3: 9:16

But then you get out in the real world and you’re like, wow, you know I walk into Target and if there’s a whole family right there that I know, it’s my job to leave if they look uncomfortable, like I am no longer the boss of my life, and so I just don’t think that that was as real as it was until after I had my license. So it’s a very big responsibility to be a therapist, it’s a very big responsibility to be a psychologist and then, after having just going through this battle for like nine months, I was like yep, and I’m pretty tight. I am very private. You know, like what’s out there is out there because I want it to be out there, but outside of that, like I’m a pretty private person and so I just can’t imagine if someone doesn’t know that I hope that they know that they are going to be very caged and it’s worth it. It’s worth it for me to do the work that I’m doing with my patients and the people I care about, but it comes at a high cost, wow.

Speaker 1: 10:13

Yeah, it sounds like it. I mean I can imagine that would be. You are. You know I’m an incredible therapist, but you can’t tell everyone. You’re an incredible therapist and I’ve helped so many people. I could try and help you, but I can’t tell you that. Now, I can imagine that can be kind of frustrating and, like you said, if you’re, you know, fresh out of school and you’re trying to establish yourself or establish your own practice, you’ve got to be really, really careful about maintaining that compliance as a license holder, for sure. Yeah Well, thank you again, dr Two Sisters, for joining us, and you know this is a really powerful reminder of understanding and working with your regulatory agencies.

Speaker 3: 10:53

It’s important, it’s important to you know, have that agency. I’m not scared of them, I just we, we have parallel experiences, right, they have a job and I have a job and my job is to follow the rules and their job is to create rules to protect the public Right. And so, like I’m not scared of them but I have a healthy respect for them and I hope they have a healthy respect for me too.

Speaker 1: 11:16

Them and I hope they have a healthy respect for me too, but this is how the world works, right? Yeah, that’s such a great. I love how you laid that out. I think every license holder should hear that it’s parallel You’re doing your job, they’re doing their job. Obviously they’re intertwined, but they have different goals and it’s about kind of finding that delicate balance of working together in parallel, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 11:44

So, ladies, it was great chatting with you today and I definitely appreciate your time, dr Two Sisters, but before we let our viewers and listeners go, I wanted to remind everyone to please be sure to subscribe to the Know your Regulator for more stories and insights that are similar to this.

Speaker 1: 12:01

Yes, yes, and until next time, stay inspired and keep engaging with your regulatory agency. Thanks, guys, thank you for having me, thank you Know your Regulator. The podcast that inspires you to engage.