Uncovering the Texas Teacher Certification Scandal with Legal Experts from Bertolino Law Firm

Transcript

Narrator: 0:01

This podcast is for educational purposes only, does not constitute legal advice and does not create an attorney-client relationship. If you need legal assistance about a legal problem contact an attorney.

Cimone Murphree: 0:14

Thanks for joining us on a special episode of Know your Regulator, the podcast that inspires you to engage. I’m your host, Cimone Murphree, and today we’re diving deep into a pretty breaking story the Texas Teacher Certification Cheating Ring Scheme. Joining me to dissect this case is Bertolino Law Firm’s Director of Legal Services, Troy Beaulieu, Senior Associate LaJuana Acklin and Associate Kerry Bloodsaw. Thanks for joining me today, guys.

Kerry Bloodsaw: 0:44

Thank you Thanks

LaJuana Acklin: 0:45

thank you

Troy Beaulieu: 0:45

Thanks, Cimone. We’re excited to be here.

Cimone Murphree: 0:51

So if you haven’t been following up to this point, here is what we know about the cheating ring so far. So, basically, prospective Texas teachers sought out or were being recruited to essentially have someone else take the teaching certification exam for them. The head organizer of the scheme recruited a corrupt proctor who administered the tests, a corrupt impersonator who would then take the test as someone else, and then a recruiter or referral agent to reach out to prospective teachers. Apparently, this was a well-known operation amongst prospective teachers and the scheme really began to unfold when a Good Samaritan came forward, provided a tip to TEA Texas Education Agency. Then the agency investigation revealed patterns of teachers who were traveling from, you know, faraway cities, who had often previously failed this exam, and now suddenly they are passing with high marks, flying colors.

Cimone Murphree: 1:57

You might think that this is kind of where things end, but it doesn’t end here. In 2023, houston’s training and education center HTEC, where these tests are being administered, was shut down due to this suspicious activity, but the cheating ring then moved to a new testing location, recruited another proctor and continued until the impersonator was caught, allegedly taking two tests at one time. And I think, troy, you said now other teachers have come forward and are confessing to being affiliated with this ring, correct?

Troy Beaulieu: 2:39

Yes, the Harris County District Attorney’s Office, when they gave their press briefing, county district attorney’s office, when they gave their press briefing, indicated that like 20 teachers who currently hold credentials have acknowledged they paid someone else to take these the exam for them and they’re cooperating with law enforcement and apparently they’re all telling relatively basically the same version of events about what happened.

Cimone Murphree: 3:07

Gotcha Okay, so let’s break it down. What happened and what effects might we see as a result of this LJ? We’ll start with your insights. How does this affect educational institutions in Texas and, more importantly, how does this affect our Texas teachers?

LaJuana Acklin: 3:30

That’s an excellent question, so it will affect an already prevalent problem in our schools, which is teacher shortage. I want to give you a little context. So according to the Texas Tribune article that was published in September of 2024, since the pandemic rate, the attrition rate of teachers in Texas increased from 9 percent to 12 percent. Long many school districts in Texas they hire uncertified teachers with the caveat that they will take the test within a certain time frame and become certified. So you said something earlier which ties into my analysis is that a lot of these teachers they did not pass the test originally and all of a sudden they passed the test.

LaJuana Acklin: 4:24

So that’s how this ring really came about. Is that these teachers that could not pass the test? They were uncertified, they would have lost their jobs because the law states that a contract is void if you do not have the proper certifications. It invited this in

LaJuana Acklin: 4:44

and created this problem with this ring. So they brought in the teachers that are uncertified to

LaJuana Acklin: 4:52

solve a problem.

LaJuana Acklin: 4:54

But when you have uncertified teachers and now you have this ring of trying to get certified through fraudulent means, then that very solution then also exacerbates the problem. So that void that you try to fill with teachers. Because of the teacher shortage you can’t use that solution anymore. So it creates more of a problem with the teacher shortage as far as educational our education institutions of course it, which can again add to the teacher shortage problem and it also adds to the quality of education and just paints a picture of impropriety within the educational system which hurts the schools in and of themselves. So that shortage, already a problem, it becomes a bigger problem and then the picture of impropriety and what it paints, it really sheds a really bad light. It puts a bad cloud over our public institutions.

Cimone Murphree: 6:20

Yeah, yeah, definitely, I can see that and, like you’re saying, you know there’s already a shortage and now I mean we’re talking over 200 unqualified teachers that are going to be removed. You know we’re looking at more of a shortage, kind of going into

Troy Beaulieu: 6:40

Well, and the other thing that it does do, Cimone, is it impacts the students too.

Troy Beaulieu: 6:45

Yeah Right, they’re supposed. Those teachers are supposed to be a model of you know moral virtue and how to do things right, and so a lot of those students seeing their teachers, you know, get caught up in this. They probably start to get really confused, because these are people they’re supposed to look up to as role models, and now they’re having these accusations that you’re basically a fraud.

Cimone Murphree: 7:09

Kerry, can you talk to us about the criminal charges in this case? I think the district attorney’s office said that it was charging five people with first or third degree felony counts, two each. Can you explain to us the difference between those charges and then the penalties that they carry under Texas law?

Kerry Bloodsaw: 7:30

Sure, and just to sort of back up to, I think, the point that you were talking about before, what the DA was talking about in terms of allowing like child predators into school, was that two I it was of the people that took these tests or, you know, paid for someone to take these tests and then were able to be in these schools. Two of those people had like criminal records that probably would have prohibited them from really taking the test if they had done it in the right way. But separate, separate and apart from that, the charges that the DA is bringing down on the five people involved in this ring have to do with Texas Penal Code 7102, which is engaging in organized criminal activity. So for some people that don’t know, under that statute it calls for a person commits an offense if, with the intent to establish, maintain or participate in a combination or in the profits of a combination, or as a member of a criminal street gang or foreign terrorist organization, the person commits or conspires to commit one of the following. So that’s the kind of organized crime language within that code. And then within that code it drops down several different types of crime that someone could commit right. So this 7102 is kind of the big overall statute that would you know, kind of apply to a lot of different organized criminal schemes and groups and things like that.

Kerry Bloodsaw: 9:13

But then what the DA is going to focus on is Texas Penal Code 37.10, which is cited in that original kind of organized crime language, and that’s going to be the tampering with a governmental record. So under that statute there’s actually several that I think could apply or may apply here. There’s several different ways, right that somebody can tamper with a governmental record Knowingly makes a false entry in or a false alteration of a record. I think that what presents here is makes, presents or uses a document or thing that they know is false, makes or presents or uses a governmental record with the knowledge of its falsity. So there’s a couple, specifically six, but it appears that that might be where you know the DA is going to be presenting most of their evidences under that 3710, which is not really the only way I wish to think that they could go. I mean, like you kind of heard just from the beginning of our conversation, that’s tampering with a governmental record. But also under 7102, they have provisions for forgery, for fraud, for bribery, which in a couple of the articles that I read about this. They had, you know, direct evidence of I believe it was kind of the, the ringleader, the organizer that was bribing a couple of the people on the ground, the proctors and the other individual that was associated with the actual testing location in order to be able to then have their partner come in and take all these tests for all these people. So definitely think they could have gone, you know, towards that and you know obviously still can, as the case you know develops. But specifically those are kind of what the DA is going to have to be looking at proving and, like we kind of mentioned earlier, they’re really serious In general, under 3710, these offenses are class A misdemeanors, which is the top of the bar for a misdemeanor.

Kerry Bloodsaw: 11:38

There are several ways in which they can then become felonies. I think here it has to do with a subsection that talks about defrauding and harming. Having that intent, which I think clearly these individuals in this scheme would have, just in a broad sense, you know, defrauding and harming the state of Texas and, like we talked about, you know, the teachers that are certified and the children that are relying on them, that looks like it bounces it up to a state jail felony. And then because of that organized crime statute the 7102, that also has a provision in there that says any charge is going to be upgraded one level if it’s charged under this code, which basically you know, I think in general we see a lot state to state but kind of means if you’re going to get together with a bunch of people and create a criminal organization and commit crimes kind of together, you’re probably causing more havoc, causing more chaos, causing more harm, and so therefore the statute allows for that uptick in the category of the felony or the misdemeanor, because I believe, you know, a group of people are going to be causing more harm than maybe one individual person committing that same crime.

Kerry Bloodsaw: 13:05

So in that sense it’s looking like it would be, or it’s looking like these individuals, if they are convicted, could be looking at no less than two years, no more than 10 years. But if people are reading you know people out there reading that they’re seeing more it’s because they’re charged with two. If they stack those two and they got 10 on both, that’s up to 20 years. I also think, depending on how the DA is really going to proceed, that I do think under that statute they could bump it even up higher from a state jail to a felony in the third, which would increase the sentencing or the guideline sentence even more. So I know that was a lot, but basically say all to say, these teachers are definitely in a severe lot of trouble and are facing very serious charges based on their participation in this scheme.

Cimone Murphree: 14:05

Yeah

Troy Beaulieu: 14:07

You know, the other thing that I saw the DA’s office in their press release, in their news briefing, was that they were charging money laundering too, and so that elevates things as well. So you’ve got that issue. And money laundering is just when you get money as a result of criminal activity, criminal activity, you know. If you know, hey, this money comes from criminal activity and you take it and you use it, and you use it like you would normally use money, that’s a crime and you can be charged with a felony for that. Just all in and of itself.

Cimone Murphree: 14:43

Yeah, Really great insights for our viewers there. Guys, Troy, I kind of want to stay with you and get your take on the regulatory side of things. Certainly, there have got to be rules that prohibit this kind of activity. I would imagine what types of violations occurred here and how do schemes like this undermine the licensing standards that are in place.

Troy Beaulieu: 15:11

Yeah, well, I mean, obviously you want ethical, moral teachers because they’re going to be teaching our children. So that’s one aspect of it. But the other aspect is you want competent teachers, right? You want people who are qualified, who know you know how to teach, who know what the requirements are and are skilled and trained. And if you have people that are lying and cheating and stealing in terms of the exam, then that’s totally undercutting the whole purpose of the regulatory scheme and, like we talked about earlier, it’s instilling lack of confidence in our institutions and you know our school children are looking up to these teachers and mentors and wondering what’s going on.

Troy Beaulieu: 16:02

Definitely, the Texas Education Agency has statutory authority in Chapter 21 of the Texas Education Code to take disciplinary action. They can either pursue disciplinary action, including revocation of a license that was issued based on this fraud scheme. They could also determine that they’re going to deny a pending application based on evidence that’s come to light that you know fraud was involved. They have a specific rule in 19 Texas Administrative Code it’s Section 230.21, and it concerns the educator assessment, which is the exam, and it talks all about that, including the obligation to avoid quote cheating, deception or fraud in connection with taking the exam. So there’s the language right there. Now that’s not to say that they don’t have other tools, one tool in particular that I’m familiar with, being a former regulator, that comes up a lot and you’d be surprised people really don’t realize this until you have a conversation with them.

Troy Beaulieu: 17:14

There is a crossover between the regulatory world and the criminal world, and in cases like this, you see where those two lines are crossing over in between each other. And in the Texas government code. It’s chapter 2005, 052 and 053. And and in 2005, 052, it gives state regulatory agencies, including TEA, the Texas Education Agency, the authority to deny someone a license when they have learned that someone has knowingly made false statements in connection with their application for licensure. That includes things like this fraud scheme to fraudulently have the exam taken for you, because the exam is needed to complete the requirements for your application, and so it’s in connection with your application. And so what you see in that provision is they can deny the license. But then the very next section, 2005-053, says oh, by the way, if this is done knowingly, it’s a per se violation of Texas Penal Code 37.10, which is the tampering with a governmental record statute that Carrie was just mentioning. So that is a perfect way and I’ve seen people in my regulatory days in a different context where there was fraud involved in an application, get not only their license denied or revoked.

Troy Beaulieu: 18:39

What’s a little white lie? No, a little white lie can get you a felony conviction where you’re going to prison and you just don’t realize. You think, hey, this is a white lie, nobody’s going to know. It has huge consequences and I’ve seen it in a lot of different contexts. So they can use it pretty much for any aspect of the application process.

Troy Beaulieu: 19:14

You know if you’re lying on the application, if you’re producing, you know like a fraudulent college transcript, or if you’re in this case, you know having an imposter take the exam for you. You know the language. Like we said in the TEA rules is cheating, deception or fraud. That’s very broad language. It can cover a whole host of different things and, based on what we’ve heard from the Harris County District Attorney’s Office, ms Ogg, that there was all kinds of cheating, dissenting and fraud going on.

Troy Beaulieu: 19:52

So one thing that I’m particularly curious to see about, now that we know there’s maybe 20 or more teachers who have already confessed to their role in this, is what is the Texas Education Agency going to do about their license, which I suspect they’re going to move forward with, trying to revoke them?

Troy Beaulieu: 20:14

And two, are any of those people going to be facing criminal charges, like I just said, under that tampering with a governmental record statute? Because I think it’s important to make sure that we address these fraud rings and part of that is getting those ringleaders address these fraud rings and part of that is getting those ringleaders, but another part of it is making sure that there’s not any demand for those unethical, illegal services. Right, if everybody’s above board and says I’m not going to cheat on the exam, then those fraud rings wouldn’t exist, right. So people need to have some deterrence. People, people who just struggle with doing the right thing, need to feel the heat, so to speak, and go oh geez, I better not do that because otherwise I’m going to get charged with a felony and go to prison. Kind of impress on the public psyche is a good thing that people know that. Hey, if I lie, cheat and steal, the government may come after me, because we don’t want damage to our educational institutions and things that harm our kids.

Kerry Bloodsaw: 21:23

Yeah, yeah, if I can just add to that, I think that that’s definitely true and I think that’s why the DA is moving forward as they are Because, like Troy said, if teachers think they can get, or people that want to be teachers think that they can get away with this, they will continue to do it and these rings will keep popping up.

Kerry Bloodsaw: 21:45

I mean, I was very surprised that this has been going on since 2020. And it was really only the investigation started mid-2023. They said there was I know we know about 20 teachers have already come forward, but they said 210 teachers were certified through this ring, which means that the DA office knows those 210 teacher names. So I also think that’s something to think about. You know, for some of these viewers to understand that I think the DA is going to be going very you know, very hard at this so that she doesn’t have to deal with this again, so another ring doesn’t come up in another couple of years. But that’s also to say some of these teachers that are involved may very much want to consider one, like Troy said, what TEA is going to do to them, but also what criminal charges could come and the possibility that turning yourself in may look better than you know being. You know getting that call or that knock on the door in a couple of weeks because clearly they have the names

Cimone Murphree: 22:55

Right, y eah

LaJuana Acklin: 22:55

And just to add to that, the news reports, as far as the state board of educator certification, they have confirmed they are working with law enforcement. So more than likely there will be some criminal implications for the teachers that willingly participated in the ring and, just like Kerry stated, it may be better just to turn yourself in to quell whatever criminal liability may become. That may come their way.

Troy Beaulieu: 23:24

Well, you know, Cimone, when I did this during the mortgage fraud heyday, about 15 years ago, after the financial crisis, with the real estate industry, working as a regulator with state and federal law enforcement, what well? I didn’t get a phone call this week, everything’s fine. I mean, I’ve had years go by because some of these laws have such long statute of limitations. Two, three, four years come by and law enforcement says, okay, we’re done now, we’ve built our case, we’re ready to go. And then they go knocking on someone’s door and they’re caught off guard, they’re flabbergasted. Well, that was so long ago, so well, you know, we, we had, you know, a bit of a backlog and, like Carrie said, there’s over 200 of these. So you don’t want to be sitting there looking over your shoulder for this long, extended period of time, but it’s, people don’t realize that it really can take a long time and they have that amount of time.

Cimone Murphree: 24:33

Now I know you guys had mentioned that the teachers may be charged and the organizers and the people that were actually directly involved in this scheme. Do you guys see a big discrepancy in the charges? Like, will the you know organizers who had a really big hand in this, get more severe charges than the teachers who, just you know, paid to obtain their certificate fraudulently?

Kerry Bloodsaw: 25:09

So I can at least start off the answer to that. So, as of right now, the five people involved which include, you know, the organizer, the AP that was taking the test, the other AP that was recruiting and you know referring, and then the test proctor and the test staffer, are all listed in the indictment. So the indictment that we’ve been talking about today goes over all five of those defendants and they’re each charged the same with two counts of that 7102, organizing criminal activity. So at this point they are being looked at the same in terms of an indictment. Now, you know, in the criminal world generally, you know the guy at the top might get the worst and the people at the bottom might start to break and everyone’s talking, you know, and confessing and trying to make you know deals and negotiate and you know 90% of cases plea out. So who knows if this will go to trial or not, but I would hazard to guess at this point. They’re all being looked at as the same but, as you know, people start to admit things and accept plea deals. You know, some of these counts could change, they could go away, they could be modified in some fashion. They can always be reduced.

Kerry Bloodsaw: 26:29

The DA has a lot of discretion in that, and especially with something like this where you know we don’t necessarily know the backdrop of why they started this, what they were doing.

Kerry Bloodsaw: 26:43

Obviously it was motivated by money, so all of those kind of mitigating factors could come into play to see, you know, or to have an impact on what sentence they’ll actually get, or if they’ll decide, you know, to risk it and go to trial.

Kerry Bloodsaw: 26:59

But with the teachers, specifically at this point, to my knowledge, none of them have been charged. Tia obviously is working and knows, you know, who they are most likely and will probably be, like Troy said, sending out notices and they should be prepared to have their license revoked. I think what I would speak to for those teachers at this point that haven’t come forward or that are debating about coming forward, understand that TIA also has discretion in not rev because at this point they wouldn’t qualify for a certificate. So TIA can’t, you know, just let that go. They do have the ability to allow them to do it the right way and go through the process the right way, and generally, forthcomingness, honesty and compliance with TIA, just like with law enforcement, but specifically in the administrative world, is going to go very far. So I would say at this point you know they should be thinking about the criminal side, but they also should be thinking about the TIA side, because for some of these people it might seem very similar.

Cimone Murphree: 28:09

Great information.

Troy Beaulieu: 28:16

Yeah, I, I completely agree with Kerry.

Troy Beaulieu: 28:17

And the other thing I I think that’s really important, especially if you believe that you’re caught up in in this, um, in this issue is make sure that you get legal counsel, make sure you you go out, and you really probably need to be looking for two things One, you need to be looking for a licensed defense attorney, someone who can represent you in front of the Texas Education Agency, and then you may also need to seriously consider because, like we’ve been talking about, there is some criminal liability exposure here getting a criminal defense attorney potentially.

Troy Beaulieu: 28:53

But I definitely think that, you know, being open and forthright and honest is the best way to go, especially with a case like this, where the government has been working with the Texas Attorney General’s Office and investigating this for well over a year Attorney General’s office and investigating this for well over a year and they’ve been working with the Texas Education Agency and they’ve got auditors and investigators and you know they’re going to have every little piece of thing the money trail, the bank information. I mean, you know, heaven forbid, if you paid one of these people the $2,500, they’re going to have that payment and with your bank and all the proof. So it’s going to be very difficult to be able to avoid. You know those facts and and that documentation. So, like carrie said, coming forth and taking ownership and trying to forge a positive path forward with the regulator or with law enforcement is always the best approach when they have a very well-documented investigation with. You know, solid evidence.

LaJuana Acklin: 30:00

Yeah, I agree. I agree with Kerry and with Troy and something else I think any educator that may listen to this podcast. There is a do not hire list, so you more than likely would be placed on that list because of the gravity of the certification fraud. The whole purpose of regulatory agencies and the Texas Education Agency, of course, is included is to protect the public, specifically protect our children that are being educated in our schools, and they want to make sure that you will not have access to the educational system within Texas. Also, this is national news now there have been reports on CNN, msnbc.

LaJuana Acklin: 30:55

In order to protect the public, I would not have any doubt. If you do not come forward and try to forge some sort of negotiation with both the Texas Education Agency and the DA’s office, they will, as to quote my grandmother make a believer out of you and you will be all over the national news. So not only would it hurt your ability to ever get a job in the educational system again, it may hurt your ability to be employed period. So to try to quell that is probably best that you make some sort of efforts to come forward.

Troy Beaulieu: 31:35

Yeah, and, like I was saying, you know, if you’re getting ready to do that, contact a lawyer, get legal counsel, get legal advice, somebody who can walk you through contacting the Texas Education Agency, contacting the Harris County DA’s office and be your advocate, even though you’re going in there to do the right thing and acknowledge what’s happened. You need an advocate, you need legal representation. You don’t want to go in and try and do that on your own, just like you wouldn’t want to give yourself your own root canal Right. You go to a dentist. You need to do the same thing when you’re facing serious legal consequences.

Kerry Bloodsaw: 32:13

Yeah, and my only other thing I’d point out to that is, like Troy mentioned earlier, you know, the sooner the better in that respect, because at this point, you know, I used to do criminal defense work and I never had a client that didn’t keep very detailed notes of their criminal activity, very detailed notes of their criminal activity.

Kerry Bloodsaw: 32:41

And it appears at this point, because they have all the parties involved right, that they are going to know who these people are. And they know, you know, they said this ring, you know, brought in almost a million dollars, so they pounded that money somewhere. So if you are kind of out there thinking, oh well, now, like Troy said, it’s been several months, I’m sure I’m in the clear, you’re more likely than not, you’re not. And so if you know that you are involved in this, best to contact a lawyer but then to start coming forward, because I think the stragglers at the end of this that have to be found by, you know, harris County or contacted by TIA, are going to have much harder a time than the other ones that just kind of admit defeat and come forward.

Cimone Murphree: 33:26

What kind of changes might we see in the future?

Troy Beaulieu: 33:30

Well, you know, certainly anytime you have stuff that hits the news, it impacts agencies, right, regulatory agencies, and the legislature too. Right, Because none of these changes would be possible without new legislation. But what I would say is definitely, you know, the pendulum is going to swing, probably to some extent, and they’re going to look and want to assess. Is there other things we need to do? Do we need to have some kind of auditing process? For you know, the Texas Education Agency has the authority to do a lot of audits. I don’t know that they have specific audit authority directly for the examinations, but certainly they saw a disturbing pattern and that prompted them to open an investigation. You also have the partnership with Pearson VUE. That’s the test provider. They’re one of the big ones in the country.

Troy Beaulieu: 34:35

When I was a regulator, I actually sat on a couple of those panels that would screen prospective test providers who were jockeying for the contract to do these, and they really do take integrity and security and compliance seriously and they want to minimize and eliminate cheating and fraud, and so they have their own team.

Troy Beaulieu: 35:01

So you’ll probably see closer coordination efforts. You know, kind of I think they’ll debrief, you know, and say what are the lessons learned. What are the takeaways and what can we do, you know, at that contract level between the Texas Education Agency and the exam provider, like Pearson VUE. And then what can the Texas Education Agency do on its own by amending its rules, the State Board of Educators certification, amending their rules, and then kind of the next level would be do we need any legislative changes? You know we’re heading into the legislative session starting here in january and so do we need to consider drafting some kind of bills with the education code to get additional authority tools and resources, those kinds of things. But those are kind of the three levels At the contract level with the provider, at the rulemaking level and at the legislative level.

Cimone Murphree: 36:02

Okay, yeah, any ways that you guys, just with legal insights, do y’all see any way that this cheating ring could have been avoided, other than, maybe, total honesty and integrity in every prospective teacher?

Kerry Bloodsaw: 36:30

somebody else

LaJuana Acklin: 36:31

Troy you want to go first.

Troy Beaulieu: 36:35

I was just gonna going to say you know, in my experience, anytime there’s a government program, there’s always those few bad apples who are looking at a way to exploit the system through fraud or cheating or deception, and so, no matter how many tweaks you make, and so, no matter how many tweaks you make, it’s constantly trying to play catch up with the next invention of somebody who doesn’t want to be honest. So I don’t think there is a magic bullet to completely eliminate that. I mean to do that, I think you have to change human nature, and that’s not going to happen. I do think there’s a lot of things that people can do to minimize and reduce and mitigate the risk of this fraud, though, and that is, I think, what TEA, the exam provider, and the legislature will probably be looking at over the next six to 12 months.

Kerry Bloodsaw: 37:32

Yeah, and I think on a very small scale. I know, when I was reading about the specifics of the case, I find that a little surprising. You could just walk in there. I know when we took the bar your ID sat next to you. So I mean, I think maybe on a smaller scale they might be looking at some of those things. You know, you can’t fingerprint everybody every time somebody comes in and leaves the room, but I think you could probably do a little bit better job with the ID process.

Kerry Bloodsaw: 38:19

And then, other than that, on like a very grandiose scale, kind of just like what LJ talked about earlier, I think there’s a big lack of faith that’s been brewing in public education in the US for a while and then also in Texas, certainly post-COVID, I think, out of this generation of people that are parenting their kids and trying to figure out should I homeschool?

Kerry Bloodsaw: 38:45

There’s a lot of remote schooling opportunities and then there’s private school and I think based on that and kind of the struggle that the public school system has seen, kind of the struggle that the public school system has seen, people obviously thought, oh, teachers are really desperately needed.

Kerry Bloodsaw: 39:01

I could probably get away with this, or law enforcement or TIA would look away because you know I’m coming into a system that’s already broken, you know, so I’ll break it a little bit more and no one will notice, type of thing. And so I think, on a bigger scale, you know, that’s just part of what the legislature needs to look at and maybe changing how they’re doing what they’re doing with public schools, but also, you know, trying to reinvigorate the faith that people should have in public schools and the safety of public schools and things like that. Schools and the safety of public schools and things like that and I think that the DA is probably very aware that those you know that that’s on her shoulders, so to speak to prevent this from happening again and ensure to the public that your kids are safe when they go to these public schools every day.

LaJuana Acklin: 39:51

Just for context, my husband is actually a teacher and he told me how the process works. You have to put your entire handprint in order to get in to take a test, but the tests they’re in different rooms, so that leaves room for someone to come in and be swapped out with someone else to take the test. Also, too, there’s a disconnect between the Texas Education Agency and the facilities that are set up to take these tests in the first place. And, just like Troy said, with those collaborative efforts, I think TIA should be more in a collaborative, with a collaboration with the individuals that own these facilities and bring their own people in to make sure that the test is being proctored properly.

LaJuana Acklin: 40:38

I also agree with the audits and, just to piggyback on what Troy said, I believe the audits should be blind audits. You should know when they’re coming to, you should be able to show up to the facility because a lot of these facilities you can take a certification exam seven days a week, so they come in on a sunday at 2 pm. Um, they come in, they show we’re here in the texas education agency. We just want to audit what’s going on. We just want to see the facility. I think that can boil down or we could be used to avoid um what has happened.

Cimone Murphree: 41:16

Great, great point.

Cimone Murphree: 41:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, thank you all for joining me this afternoon and thanks to our viewers for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed this episode. The story is still developing, so we encourage you to keep an eye out for related news and updates. Thanks again, guys.

Kerry Bloodsaw: 41:37

Thank you.

LaJuana Acklin: 41:39

Thank you for having us.

Narrator: 41:41

Know your Regulator. The podcast that inspires you to engage.